Sculptor of nature

[vaneramos]

I was reading at the -bar on Thursday when two local artists I know walked by: Tammy and her husband, Chris, whose family runs the art supply store downtown. They were on their way to hear a talk by artist Andy Goldsworthy. I had already ordered dinner, otherwise I would have gone with them. Now I wish I had gone anyway.

He is an environmental artist who utilizes elements of nature without disrupting it, then photographs his creations. He considers his works temporary. They will eventually disintegrate. The photographs provide a record.

See his gallery. Tammy said his book is available at The Bookshelf. I intend to look at it today.

~~~~~~~~~~

Danny is here for the weekend attending the Ontario Handspinning Seminar at University of Guelph. He bought me a guest pass so I could go with him to see the vendors last night, and I met his friend Ted from Owen Sound.

Part of me wants to start from the beginning: learn how to wash, card, dye, spin and knit a complete object. I shouldn't attempt it, judging by how long my quilt has been in process (I have sewn three more rows since the photo in that post was taken). The part that intrigues me most is the colour and texture of the fibre. Ted, not knowing I have started a quilt, suggested I take up quiltmaking. I could dye my own cotton. This also appeals to my fascination with herbs, many of which are dye plants.

I won't have much time to spend with Danny. The guest pass would allow me to join them for lunch today, but I had enough of exploring the vendor's booths last night, so the meal isn't worth the trouble of going to the university again. I have all kinds of other ideas in my head for how I want to spend the day.

We have the nights together, and that's good. Yesterday when we got home I made avocado-banana shakes, inspired by the ones Monique introduced to us at a café in Toronto recently. Mine was made with vanilla ice cream and didn't taste quite the same; the others probably used only ice and milk, but somehow they seemed richer and thicker. Mine were good enough: just a banana, half an avocado, a couple scoops of ice cream and some milk shlooped together in a food processor.

~~~~~~~~~~

My sojourn with Remeron began on Thursday night. I take 30 mg before bed. So far the only side effect is drowsiness, which only compels me to stay in bed in the morning. Once I get up, eating breakfast and moving, it evaporates. The result is I'm sleeping more, which is good. But there's more.

I wasn't supposed to experience any benefits right away, but I already notice changes in my state of mind. I feel less inhibited about expressing my thoughts and feelings in writing: hence this post, and the one yesterday.

I have noticed something else, which I don't like. Yesterday afternoon Danny arrived and we cuddled for a while, then had leftovers for dinner—turkey fettucine alfredo—before catching the bus to the university. He noticed how mellow I was and wondered if I was tired. I had already noticed it myself, but it wasn't tiredness. It was detachment.

I remember feeling that way frequently when I lived with Dan in 1987. At the time my life was going through radical changes with significant stresses. I didn't know myself as well as I do now, and didn't connect that state of mind with the Paxil I was taking at the time. But now that I've had a steady state for several years, I know this sensation is unfamiliar. It is a lack of emotional involvement with what's happening around me.

That's the point of taking this stuff, isn't it? If situations don't cause me so much anxiety, I'll have an easier time finding work.

But there I sat at the table last night, feeling impassive. I had finished my plate before Danny. He was excited, even a little jittery about the seminar. While he told me about his latest wool projects, I cut myself a slice of bread and ate it quietly, sometimes looking at him, sometimes gazing out the window. I listened with patience, not disinterested by impassive.

Antidepressants are supposed to level the highs and lows. Danny's company has always given me a boost, and I'm not thrilled about losing the fine edge of my enjoyment with him or anyone else. Do I really have to pay this price for getting my life in order?




Another shot taken on Danny's Nikon CoolPix 4500.

Comments

[apel.livejournal.com]

I think the answer to your question is no. There are many anti-depressants both medical and herbal. Please don't give up until you've tried a good number of them. I've been on SSRI's and I don't recognise the detachment you describe at all. If anything, I got much more outgoing and even bubbly. The bubbliness faded once I realised that not all my problems had been adressed by the anti-depressants but I never felt detached or impassive. Same now that I'm on a mix of herbal anti-depressants. I'm not feeling detached or disinterested. People tend to think only of St. John's Wort when they think of herbal anti-depressants but there are many more. Lemon balm and basil to mention two.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying taht. I'm going to give it several weeks to see how things shape up, but if I continue to feel that way, I will look for some alternatives.

[apel.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a plan. No sense in settling when there are so many alternatives to try. OTOH, that's one of the things depression does to a person -- it makes one think that there is no point in trying something, that it's not going to change anything, in fact there is no point in trying anything, nothing is ever going to change anyway.

Avoidance

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I rarely get that feeling. The main difficulty is concentrating on the things I want to change.

I'll mention here that the psychiatrist pointed out a significant problem with Avoidance. I agree. It will be My Big Challenge, or one of them.

[queenmomcat.livejournal.com]

Remind me: is Remeron an anti-anxiety drug or an antidepressant? It's getting harder to tell the difference these days as so often drugs initially approved for one purpose end up proving useful for other things as well...but how closely is it related to drugs such as Zoloft and Wellbutrin in terms of its own chemical or its effect on people? (The brain is a funny thing.) I don't recall Stephe mentioning detachment as one of the effects of any of the drugs he's taking/taken. The concrete advice I can give from personal experience is: don't give up on medication if the Remeron doesn't prove useful. I know that there have been new drugs approved for use in the U.S. since 1994 and some variants on old ones--whether they've also gotten past the Canadian equivalent of the FDA is another matter entirely.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

The Remeron website describes it as a noradrenergic and selective serotonergic antidepressant (NoSSA). I have the impression its action is slightly different from SRIs, and that it blocks certain sites stimulated by other antidepressants, reducing the side effects. Thanks as always for the advice. I'll give this drug a shot for several weeks to get a better idea of how it's going to affect me and if I'm still having problems I'll talk to the specialist about alternatives.

fI'm in full agreement

[ciddyguy.livejournal.com]

Keep trying other meds/herbal remedies until you find one that works. In 1997, I was diagnosed with anxiety and was given Paxil. Did nothing for me, if anything, it made me run slower and the symptoms never did really dissapate.

Now, I'm on Effexor, thanks to my current doctor and after just over 2 weeks, it came on and now, I feel really great most days, even bubbly and/or giddy at times. I'm much more outgoing etc. I even seem to be more lively as well. So, in this case it works for me and I've only been on it about 2 months. The only side effects is the occasional drowsy spell, which is expected and I take Lisinipril(sp?) for high blood pressure and it is known for makine users drowsy as well.

BTW, I never experienced detachment that I'm aware of when I began, just felt weird and at first, when I yawned, my body would tingle and my knees would get weak for a few seconds and it'd go away. Not anymore thank goodness. Also, it made me really sleepy and I'd take long, and I mean, long naps and even that has largely gone too.

Re: fI'm in full agreement

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I had bad side effects on Effexor in 1995.

[laura-borealis.livejournal.com]

I have a bit of the same problem with Zoloft. I don't notice the detachment all the time, but sometimes it really bothers me -- like my emotions are wrapped in cotton. I noticed I never have giddy spells anymore. Neither do I have the crushing lows, which is good and indeed the point. But I miss the highs.

I have to say, though, I love love love the work of the artist you mention, Andy Goldsworthy. I wonder if he was ever in my town? One autumn, maybe 12 years ago, I was walking in a little woods on campus and came across the most extraordinary creation. In a long crevice in a fallen log, someone had taken maple leaves and arranged them in an overlapping line: red to orange-red to orange to yellow-orange to yellow to yellow-green to green. They were carefully laced together with long pine needles, with painstaking precision. It was beautiful and amazing and very much like your Andy's work.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Wow, it sounds a lot like one of his works. That must have been wonderful to see. His work is really inspiring. I want to try making some creations of my own in the woods where I walk regularly.

As for the side effects

[ciddyguy.livejournal.com]

While I didn't have all the side effects, what I did have were bad enough for roughly several days to a week.

Most days I litteraly do feel great. I'm a lot calmer when I wake up and one of the problems prior to Effexor was triggering a gag reflex when I brushed my teeth shortly after eating breakfast in the morning, now, that's gone. I've also been taking Nexium for a possible gastric problem, related to the gag reflex/hurling I'd do in the mornings, and sometimes the sudden, but rare dry heaves.

I'm getting ahold of my doctor to ask about the Nexium as my refill is used up on whether he thinks I should continue or not.

Anyway, do give it time. Most meds like Effexor, Welbutrin etc take roughly 2 weeks before you notice anything significant, other than any side effects, which are often short term.

I did notice, however that the calming effect did appear within days, but the major impact took just over 2 weeks.

Good luck Van.

[ruralrob.livejournal.com]

Again the amswer is no. But it's unfair on yourself to pose that question after 36 hours experience with the drug. Drugs like this tend to take way longer than that to have an impact, positive or negative. Your body/brain hasn't yet had time to adjust to the drug or react very much differently than it always has. I'm not saying you're imagining or anticipating the effects, although that can easily happen, but it takes time for them to become fully apparent.

Even if you do have negative reactions over the long term which is unlikely as the drug is well tolerated (meaning few/no side effects of consequence) the correct response is to try another and then another. And if all drugs in this class don't work - again highly unlikely - and nor do herbal remedies, it all reverts to quality of life decisions. If you have a strong need to ease anxiety symptoms, you will persevere, providing the benefit outweighs the cost. And there a heirarchy of need comes in to play . . .

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

No I'm not going to give up on this drug yet. I realize the negative side-effects may go away in a few weeks, and I'm also noticing some positive stuff already. Like: it feels wonderful to sleep eight hours when I normally sleep five-and-a-half. That alone is enough to make me feel more focused and interested in doing creative stuff right now.

I will probably continue to record some of my impressions, partly because my memory is abyssmal at the best of times, partly because it's part of The Story.

Your input and encouragement are most appreciated at this time.

[artricia.livejournal.com]

You should probably tell your prescribing physician what's going on. It's a little freaky that it has such a sudden effect -- it makes me think that it might be hard to stop taking them, when the time comes.

5HTP is one of the supplements I've used. It's a serotonin precursor. Your body uses it to make its own serotonin. I took one this morning -- tough times lately that don't seem to be going away. I hope it will help me through the weeks ahead.

I'll be thinking of you -- take care.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I'm not worried about withdrawal. Paxil is notoriously bad for that, and I didn't have much trouble getting off it.

Thanks for telling me about the supplement. I'm going to make notes of all these recommendations for future reference.

Don't worry: I plan to tell the psychiatrist about any problems when I see him on the 15th.

[eloquentwthrage.livejournal.com]

It's virtually impossible for the drug to cause a reaction like that in less than a three-week period. My guess is that your detachment is largely psychosomatic at this point, in that taking the drug allows you to be impassive before it actually has a chance to build up and do what it's supposed to do. No anti-depressants work overnight like that. Unless of course, you're taking an anti-anxiety, like Lorazepam, which has immediate, catatonic results.

When I took Paxil for a month, I had three weeks of side effects including dry throat, blurred vision, and just a general fluffy feeling that things were odd. The fourth week, I settled in and felt pretty good about things. My sex life, however, was non-existent. Doc switched me to Wellbutrin, which allowed me to have a sex life, but didn't do much for me otherwise, so I gave up on it. (It also raised my blood pressure.) As I weaned myself away from it, I had bouts of mild depression and small outbursts of anger. That passed in a few weeks, and then I was back to abnormal.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

From what I have been told, Remeron has a relatively quick effect, and the effects are different for anxiety than for depression. The psychiatrist said I might experience benefits immediately. The pharmacist said no, but possibly after several days. Personally, with my deficient sleeping habits, I can already see and understand how two nights sleeping at least eight hours has affected my state of mind. Really: I don't feel so over-sensitive, which is where the anxiety comes from. Now we'll see how the side-effects pan out over the next few weeks, and whether I can tolerate them.

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow, if I'd known Goldsworthy was going to be in Guelph, I'd have stayed another week! OMG. My sister-in-law turned me on to his work last Christmas. Wow.

About the meds: two things.

1. I think we talked about this when I visited but maybe not, and it's worth repeating. I'm told that the modern antidepressants are all different enough that they affect people in different ways. If one is no help for depression to you, and another helps but masks your joy, keep at your doctor to shift you onto something else.

The "masking" effect you've described is not uncommon. But you shouldn't have to lose your joy just to reduce your anxiety or sadness. That's not how it's been for me.

2. Unlike some other folks who've commented, I'm not totally surprised that you're noticing effects right away. About fifteen minutes after taking my first dose of Prozac, a very interesting sensation of increased mental clarity hit me. It was, if anything, like a mental veil *lifting* from my thoughts and feelings. And I spent my first weekend on Prozac feeling mildly euphoric, bubbly, talkative (even more than usual, that is).

When I increased my dosage at the end of the first week, I started also having odd headaches, mostly only on the right side of my head. My doctor and I turned my dosage back down and I've been fine ever since.

Now, Prozac is generally not "supposed" to act that quickly. Nevertheless, my doctor doesn't think it was only placebo effect. Nor do I. We think it simply happens to affect me in mildly atypical ways.

When I worked with statisticians on HIV research, pharmacology studies of drug effects and drug interactions were a big deal. They're very hard to model well ... it's easier to say that a drug is 80% effective for 70% of a population than to tell exactly what's going to happen for Patient X. The between-patient variability is often very high. So, too, can be the within-patient variability: how a drug affects or clears a person's system is potentially affected by so many factors.

Which is why your first week or two or three, even if you see immediate results, doesn't give you enough time to know how things will go for you long-term. The negative side-effects may fade. So might the positive effects. It will take some time.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Re: Goldsworthy, don't worry, you didn't miss anything too serious. I misunderstood Tammy. Turns out it was only a film. I missed it, but the staff at The Bookshelf said they expect it to come back.

Now for two guys who spend so much time analyzing themselves as you and me, is it any wonder we would experience changes right away? I mean, this was an extremely subtle shift. I only noticed it because it's something that used to irk me about myself and I hadn't felt it in years, certainly never with Danny. I had never associated it with medication before, so I don't think I was imagining it.

I am feeling relatively good today. Not euphoric, but then depression was not my specific problem. I do feel less lonely than I've been feeling for the past couple of weeks (even though Danny has been out all day), and less inhibited about going out and doing things.

In fact, I went and created something crudely Goldsworthy-esque this afternoon. I'll probably post about it tomorrow.

[blue-by-you.livejournal.com]

Goldsworthy's art is incredible!! Thank you for sharing him. And I can't wait to see what you are drawing, too.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'll post this one, Lisa, but once my pencils have warmed up some, I look forward to sharing the new drawings.