Telling the kids

[vaneramos]

On Friday my daughters finished their last day of school at lunchtime, so I picked them up at 1:30. Once we were all in the car, I told them the plan: we were going to Toronto to pick up Danny djjo; and he would join us at the cottage for the weekend.

The next part should have been easier. I intended to tell them Danny is my boyfriend, but the words wouldn't come. The trouble is I have often felt guilty about the string of men—mostly nice ones—during the past few years who came into my life and spent several weekends with my daughters only to disappear. I have always gone on the principle that if they ask a question, they're ready to know the answer. They've known I am gay for eight years, but usually I didn't identify my relationships explicitly, just waited for questions. Questions never came, so the relationships kept evaporating without explanation.

Once Brenna said to me, "You sure have a lot of friends," putting just enough emphasis on the last word to indicate she knew exactly what was going on.

I have been more careful this time. I have been dating Danny almost a year and the girls had only met him once in November. It went off pretty well, and Brenna has asked several times when we would be seeing him again. I simply assured her that we would.

Now I know Danny is going to be around for some time, so I wanted to reassure them he is someone significant who they can afford to get attached to.

But for several months I have felt a quandary over the matter of polyamory. Having a gay parent seems enough trouble for any kid being raised in an evangelical home. I felt so close to losing them before, and didn't want to raise issues that might alienate them. Call me polyphobic or whatever, but I decided not to worry about it for now. Telling them I had a boyfriend seemed enough of a mouthful for now.

But that alone was more than I could handle. Friday afternoon while we joked together in the car, went grocery shopping, then went for a walk before meeting Danny, I looked for an appropriate moment, but none came.

Finally, walking along the street to his house, I came against a wall. Saying nothing seemed an injustice. All I could do was force the words.

"Just so you know, Danny is my boyfriend."

"Cool," they both said.

"But," Marian added, not missing a step, "I thought he already had a boyfriend."

"Well not really," I heard myself say, and began uttering bullshit. I couldn't believe what I was doing. I've rarely lied to anyone in my life, and never to my children. It didn't last long.

A little further down the block I swallowed my pride: "Actually Danny does have another boyfriend."

Then they wanted to know who he was and whether they had met him before. They hadn't, but were about to. I explained that Danny and Bill live together, but I feel like family with them.

"Cool," they said.

"That doesn't bother you?" I asked.

"No," they said at once.

Within minutes they got to meet Bill bitterlawngnome. I didn't want to make a big deal of it, so I didn't have a chance to explain to Bill and Danny what had just happened. I was wound like a top, feeling so much importance hanging on that casual meeting. To be perfectly honest, I was on the verge of tears for the next couple hours, feeling proud of the obstacles our love has surmounted, and what fine young women Marian and Brenna are becoming.

When we were ready to leave for our cottage weekend, Danny went to give Bill a hug, and I noticed the girls watching carefully.

A while later we were on Highway 400 at last, heading north. We would have to stop for groceries, and I wanted to know what Danny would like for a barbecue on Saturday night.

"Ribs?" he suggested.

He knew well enough, that's one of my specialties. He also knew my daughters love them.

Danny had them once before, last summer, but, "I didn't know whether you liked them or not," I said. "I knew Daniel did."

In fact I had made ribs specifically at danthered's request.

Brenna, not missing a thing, asked, "Who's Daniel?"

I cleared my throat.

"Bill's other boyfriend," I said.

Brenna said casually, "I suppose there will be more and more of them."

She is too sly.


~~~~~~~~~~


Back from the cottage this afternoon, we attended the Pride parade, then headed to Danny and Bill's house for my daughters' first experience of a Sunday night dinner. So the girls got to meet Daniel, too. koobear brought some delicious Greek treats beginning with flatbread and various dips (yummy taramasalata, tzatziki with some bite, hummus, olives, a basil dipping oil, etc.), followed by pasta with a creamy pesto sauce. My daughters seemed to enjoy the company completely and ate heartily, as if to prove me an idiot for warning our hosts beforehand: "They're picky eaters."

Many thanks to Danny, Bill, Daniel, Liakoo and Kathy for welcoming my girls that way.

My favourite Brenna-ism of the evening was when she told bitterlawngnome, "You're cute when you're guilty."

Comments

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

What kind words; I don't know what to say, but thank you.

[apel.livejournal.com]

I'm glad it went so well, considering how important a meeting it was. I wasn't there but my guess would be that they see that you are in a much better space surrounded by these open and honest bears than you were when you were a straight, closeted evangelical. Then there's the paradox of polyamoury -- the more you surround yourself with love and loving people, the more love you have to give to to others, including your children. Maybe Brenna and Marian don't actually care who and how many people you're in a realationship with, as long as you are obviously thriving?

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Years ago I could see my daughters understood it made me happy when I had someone in my life. It meant we would have good times together. They have always been receptive to my friends and anyone I have dated.

I was worried this time, because Marian is in a particularly delicate phase, identifying strongly with me. However, everything seemed to go fine.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure who else was paying attention at that moment, but Bill heard it and burst out laughing.

From the mouths of babes ...

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

I'd thought of calling you this weekend, before I got wrapped up in my own stuff. Hm, I might well have added to the stress.

That phobic moment when you don't tell someone important in your life the exact truth, because you're afraid of how polyamory will look to them? I still have that sometimes. You are SO fabulous for recognizing it for what it is and getting past it. It can feel SO hard.

Yay for the girls.

Bill better watch out with Brenna, though. She is SO on to him.

There's more to say but not enough time. I'm sending you, Danny, and the girls hugs until I can make time to call at length.

Re: From the mouths of babes ...

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Ha, it wouldn't have caused a problem at all. I thought frequently about you, in fact I wanted to sit down and write a postcard to you and a few other LJers, but this week didn't afford me any time for that. I'll do it sooner or later.

Brenna is gifted with profound, wry intuition about people. We all better watch our steps.

[mathan.livejournal.com]

*GRIN* Way to go Van! ;)

BTW were the girls with you at the parade?

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Ya, they were there standing in front of me when we saw you. Sorry we didn't have time for more than a wave. Happy Pride!

[mathan.livejournal.com]

No worries. ;) Happy Pride!!!

>:-)

[dubious-one.livejournal.com]

i'm sure you know that you are so lucky to have such talented, understanding, kick-ass daughters...i think they understand your "situation" more than i do...i met my boyfriend's son this weekend, and i was a nervous wreck. it went way better than expected...i think as adults we forget how children aren't plagued by experience and wisdom...they haven't lost trust in people and they fly on curiosity and innocence, and in the end it seems that they understand the world better than we do.

Re: >:-)

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to hear that went well. Kids don't always receive their parents' partners well, but I think in those cases the parents must be doing something wrong. As long as the kids don't feel they have to compete for attention, everything will be fine.

[queenmomcat.livejournal.com]

There are as many variants on the theme as there are children of divorced parents; I seem to recall my sister was more upset about my parents' divorce than I was, but my mother and father did pretty much the same by both of us. I think you're right: things go more smoothly if the kids are sure they will always be an important part of their parents' lives regardless of who's doing what with who.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

There are many different factors of course: temperaments, age and genders of the children, whether another romance is a factor in the breakup (it wasn't in our case). Giving the children a lot of reassurance is certainly important.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Yes, the time at the cottage was wonderful. Danny fit right in there, too.

[bitterlawngnome.livejournal.com]

It was cool, they were great. I'd tell you to stop worrying about it but that's kinda futile :)

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I know from hearing other people's stories: some kids are not so cool. I keep expecting my daughters to react the same way all the adults in my family would do. Their openness and tolerance always surprises me. Thanks for a great evening.

[bitterlawngnome.livejournal.com]

I only say that after meeting them - surely, most people of any age would behave conventionally.

The not worrying thing ... you're a parent. Might as well ask you to fly to the moon on gossamer wings :)

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

We had a lot of forces stacked against us for a while. I have known a few guys whose ex-wives succeeded in turning their kids against them. In fact I knew two men in that situation who committed suicide. I suppose there are more sides to those stories though. My buddy Jon was rejected by his teenage sons, but he has been level-headed and patient about it, so they have come around somewhat.

In my case, I don't feel very level-headed, but somehow we have kept close despite the obstacles. I feel very lucky. I know this: it's best to put a child's needs ahead of one's own parental rights and fears, and a child will probably see and respect that.

Sounds like you got a good start on that talk.

[ranjtheobscure.livejournal.com]

Brenna is a very sharp kid. Wonder where she gets it from.

Now the next hurdle will be in a few years when they look at poly as a choice in their own life. Good job, Van, for difficult honesty. It will pay off in the long run.

Re: Sounds like you got a good start on that talk.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

As far as choices go, I'm sure Marian is already thinking about it. Whether she will ever feel comfortable discussing it with her father is another question.

[jwg.livejournal.com]

Very nice story; your children continue to show that they are fine young people and you should be proud of them. I'd say that your kids' reaction to these revelations is pretty consistent with other things you've said about them and how they react to you so you probably had little to fear.

All this verbiage we hear from politicians trying to protect traditional marriage goes against reality anyway. There are so many kinds of relationships and although children may not know all the details they are certainly aware of the many different situations that they and their real and television peers live in. So unless they have been sheltered tremendously, they will likely respond positively to discovery - particular in situations with people who are friendly, warm, and are having a good time.

I wonder how they talk about it with their friends.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I suspect they don't. I asked Marian several years ago whether she had anyone she could talk to about it and she said no. Her recent objections to the previous school surrounded its conservatism, not just the school itself, but also her classmates. The same may be a problem at her boarding school next year, which is not explicityly Christian, but has a strict dress code, etc.

Brenna is less willing than her sister to cause waves, and I have a feeling she keeps this matter to herself.

It's an important question, one which I'll try to raise again this summer.

[leafshimmer.livejournal.com]

Wow. This is HUGE.

After reading this, I just LOVE your daughters. Not only are they cute, they're very wise people. Just like their Daddy...

Hugs, Shimmer

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Ya, they are pretty cool. :-)

Have a great time at the farm this weekend.

Hugs, Van

[eloquentwthrage.livejournal.com]

You're the best dad in the world.

There's something I feel you might want to discuss with your daughters at some point. When Ramon joined John and me in our relationship, he was very weirded out about the whole thing. Specifically, I felt that he thought what we were doing was wrong, against the natural order of things. One night I sat him down and we had a long conversation about it. I had to tell him that just because something is not normal, that doesn't mean it's bad, just different. This especially applies to adult interpersonal relationships.

I was thinking about you wondering if your daughter(s) would show an interest in polyamory. With a conversation about "different" relationships, it might be kosher to discuss the fact that just because Daddy's doing it doesn't mean they have to, and if they do, they face certain consequences, which you can speak to all too well. I myself don't even know how to refer to John and Ramon. I used to call John my partner, but can I have two partners? I've been calling them my boyfriends, if you can believe that. Also when I'm at work, I am now very private about my personal life. It sort of sucks. At the CD store, it was such a small group, everyone knew and it was fine. In a business this size, though, I haven't told anyone I'm gay - though I'm sure there are those who suspect or know and I don't care - only because I am loath to talk about my relationship. For one, I'm afraid my co-workers won't understand. Also, my mother is a manager in the company, and I don't want her to face any sort of reprisals based on my lifestyle.

Sorry, I'm babbling a bit. Anyway, you're the best dad in the world.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Yes, this is all very important, and something I need to discuss with them at some point.

I've experienced the same change in my willingness to be totally out to people. It bothers me because this is something I've always felt strongly about: the importance of feeling free to express myself around others. It makes me more aware of how some people feel less free to identify as gay depending on prevailing attitudes.

[eloquentwthrage.livejournal.com]

You're absolutely right. I was very careful at the CD store for a long time, until I just couldn't take it anymore. Everyone knew about Ramon, and probably had already figured it out anyway, were just waiting for me to tell them. After that it made it so much easier.

Where I am now, though... I'm so transitory, it being a summer job and all. I don't think it's worth even bringing up that I'm gay.

[trinker.livejournal.com]

Oh, so aware of the heart-in-throat moment of disclosure about complicated relationships. And the momentary desire to talk around the issue, and downplay. Glad things went smoothly.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

You describe that feeling very well!

[roosterbear.livejournal.com]

Children can be really amazing. It's so easy to underestimate them; I think that everyone is guilty at times of worrying that they can't handle or understand something that's totally within their grasp.

It's so awesome the way they reacted. And I bet it's a huge weight off your shoulders.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

They understand many things. I'm all too aware (from my friends' experiences) of how children can also manipulate their parents' insecurities to their own advantage. I've always felt my daughters were on my side, and in that I have been lucky.

It is a great relief to have this issue out in the open, so I don't have to pretend anything.

[ubermunkey.livejournal.com]

I must say this,
Love is love is love
Tears form and roll and I feel, where you are, where you have been, where you are going,
To those who love you and whom you love, it doesn't matter

let the children teach us, remind us.
love is enough

be well Van,
what a beautiful post this is
thanks for sharing it

I have so been there with lieing then choking out the truth, fear and guilt and worry, where none needed to be.

seriuosly thank you for sharing.
lots of love
connor

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

And once again you show your poet's heart, C.

I've had a couple hectic days here in the city, getting a bunch of things done. Heading back north as soon as I can get the dishes washed, fresh laundry packed, etc.

Thanks for all your thoughtful words.

Love and hugs,
Van