Embattled love

[vaneramos]

Today a friend posted an account of how he fell in love with his wife, and what outside abuse they experienced together because of it. Their relationship broke her culture's traditions and her relatives set out to punish them for it. The story reminded me that gays are not the only people who face prejudice because of who they love.

In defending homosexuality, many people quickly point to research suggesting it is genetically based, but the results are far from conclusive. On the other hand, anti-gay psychology depends on developmental causes that supposedly can be counteracted, despite a lack of evidence that people can change their orientation at will.

Sexual preference probably arises from a variety of factors. Recently I have considered whether I might be bisexual. Past experiences have caused me to feel certain aversion to emotional intimacy with women. This is not true of all gay men, but in my case it could be argued that my orientation has arisen partly from psychological causes. As I experience healthier and happier friendships with women, the possibility of heterosexual attraction does not feel as remote as it once did.

Still I choose to love men because I like it better. So what if it's a choice?

Since our ancestors descended from the trees and slouched into their smoky caves, humans have set up legal systems and religions forbidding all kinds of harmless acts. Our world still holds taboos against loving people of a different race or the same sex, or loving more than one person. These rules have nothing to do with human nature or harmonious community, only with establishing a heirarchy of power. The institution of marriage submits to this authority. No relationship should be accorded privileges, excepting a child's relationship with his or her parents.

I have chosen to love a man and hope our relationship will continue for the rest of my life. I don't care whether this choice is ordained by my DNA or a consequence of early childhood experiences. To love him is as valuable as loving anyone else.

I have other people with whom I experience lesser emotional and sexual attachments. Likely other relationships will someday rise to eminent levels and play significant roles in my life. Cultural heritage suggests polyamory is immoral or abnormal, but nature persuades me otherwise.

Integrity and respect seem like useful tools for conduct. Within those constraints I expect to break the rules shamelessly. But shame is another matter, difficult to recognize and overcome in all its forms. It's the most obscure power society enacts against the individual.

Comments

[daisydumont.livejournal.com]

hmm, yeah, you're right. it was just a little illustration. here's the test, or close to it, better laid out. i'll take it again later on too. i don't see a key to it -- as in, if you get this score or that score, you're definitely bi (or whatever) -- but i think the taking of it is in itself revealing as an activity.
klein grid, again

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

How fantastic that you posted about the Klein grid. You and Van might both be interested in this slightly transformed "take" on Klein's work: http://www.biresource.org/pamphlets/klein_graph.html. It asks people to consider not only their current attractions but their histories and their ideal sense of self.

Bobbi Keppel, one of the people who wrote and uses this revised version, often uses it to highlight for people the unexpected commonalities among their differences in sexual attraction or orientation. She reports that people often get interesting lightbulbs over their heads when they realize that the matter of sexual attraction and how we live our lives is more complex and interesting than many of our ways of talking about it give credit to.

It's also interesting to note the number of times that people who experience themselves as gay or lesbian end up sounding "more bisexual" than some bisexual people ... I imagine the same happens among bisexuals who are more other-sex oriented than I am and their straight-identified counterparts as well.

Van and I had a moment like this recently where I reported being less often attracted to women than he expected, perhaps even less attracted than he is, though I experience myself as more likely to ACT ON such attractions when they occur. :)

[daisydumont.livejournal.com]

oh, thank you! i've marked that page and will consult it.

i find the whole topic of attraction and desire so interesting. about 6 years ago, i finally faced the facts about who i am *inside* (as opposed to the vanilla-looking married woman i am situated in the world). the kinsey scale helped me sort out, in a very simplistic way, how to see myself (somewhere between a 1 and a 2, which sounds like a lawrence welk song but isn't *g*). this more subtle test should help sort it out even more. with me, it's a potentiality, since i've never acted on my attractions toward other women. well, once i had an exploratory conversation with a lesbian, but she was so hostile toward bisexuals in general that nothing happened. i gave up on the idea then and have just held inside the thought of the very different life i could be leading.

people are fascinating!

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

the vanilla-looking married woman i am situated in the world

Grin. I'm somewhere between a 5 and a 6. You sound like Lawrence Welk, I sound like a dance-routine countdown ("a 5, a 6, a 5-6-7-8!") or a football huddle for innumerates who don't know many numbers. :)

Bisexuality is often a tough topic for lesbians. Seems to be easing up in recent years. Congratulations on having the wherewithal to sort out your insides, though. That always seems to make life better, with or without the part about acting on it.

[daisydumont.livejournal.com]

haha! :D

well, i think that particular woman had had some bad experience with a bisexual lover who ditched her for a man. Well of Loneliness, anyone? it was so understandable that i tried not to be personally disappointed by her attitude. and yes, it has made my life much more comprehensible, knowing where my feelings are coming from at times. hiding from oneself is exhausting!

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the "I had a bad experience with someone" thing is hard to know how to approach. Because on the one hand, what can one appropriately do except empathize. Being dumped is no fun.

I just wonder if it feels WORSE to be dumped for a man than for another woman. I can speculate about why it might. But I'm not sure I really get it.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

At Gay Fathers I heard all kinds of stories. Some wives said it was easier having a gay husband because they knew they couldn't compete. Others said that made it worse. Probably neither is any worse; it all depends on the emotional atmosphere within the spouse.

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

I agree. But see, you and I do "complexity" the way we do "breathing": it's natural to us. :)

I used to rant about this whole "a bisexual will leave me" thing. Now, it's more that I'm simply aware of my own bemusement around it. I don't understand what I can interpret of people's thought/feeling processes.

Straights tend to feel that our same-sex partners have a mysterious, unbeatable pull on our "true" sexuality. Gay men and lesbians often feel the same about our other-sex partners, plus the whole anxiety about "you'll want the privilege of being straight and passing in the mainstream, and I can't offer you that."

If all this were true, bisexuals would never partner stably with anyone. But wait: that's a common stereotype about us, too. :)

I guess what all of this makes me wonder is: how are we EVER sure of a partner's love and affection, except via the texture of our shared lives together, the regular interactions, the mutual acts of support or kindness or love, the things we talk about, the struggles we sort through?

When people talk about "a bisexual will leave me" it makes me think "Well, sure, being left is always a risk, and it hurts ... but are we saying that gay men don't leave each other? That lesbians are always faithful to lesbians?" Clearly not, from what people tell me.

So it feels as if people are putting the abstract category "bisexual" ahead of the warp and weft of real partnership, the need to get to know each other deeply and intimately, and the need (at least for me) to be a little careful with my heart until a relationship proves itself over time. Some bisexuals stand that test. So do some gay men. But not all of either category.

What I've learned, though, is that many people really DO put those abstractions first. It must suit them in some way. And it wouldn't suit me. So I've been learning to value the fact that some people are so open about stereotyping. It helps me figure out, sooner, that they're not the right kind of person for me. :)

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Welcome to Wild Animals of the World. I'm Pete Chvany, your host.

Tonight we have a special treat for you: recorded mating rituals of the Complex Human (Cexhu). Remarkably, these strange calls and dances are incomprehensible to the typical Homo sapiens. If you find this program tedious, go ahead and change channels immediately.

While some scientists claim Cexhu has diverged as a separate species due to selective pressures, genetic differences are as yet undetectable.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Wow, thank you for telling that story DD. It opens up a side of you of which I was unaware.

People ARE interesting

[ciddyguy.livejournal.com]

While I see myself as gay through and through, more or less, I am well aware of the variable forms of gay and lesbianism that exist. As an orientation, I have no desire for women in a relationship context, but with a man, yes, definately. Now, I'm not into all men, nor are they all into me either.

I'm of average height, but slim to average and dress on the "prim" side, that is business attire or when not that, usually in the preppy fashion much of the time. I do have my butch tendancies too and I find it comes out when I wear leather, especially the black leather trench, but be that as it may, I do see myself more middle of the road in most respects.

I've had guys aske me if I am gay, and that was before I was even aware of being gay myself. :-)

As far as lesbians go, many are so anti male that it's scary and I've personally known some that were really dykes and belonged to the Freedom Socialists/Radical Wymen groups and boy, don't mess with 'em.

But on the other hand, I've known some lesbian couples who are wonderful so they do indeed run the gamut.

This is indeed an interesting subject that Van has brought up.

Re: People ARE interesting

[daisydumont.livejournal.com]

yes, i think he's opened up a good discussion! :)

a friend of mine since childhood realized he was gay at about age 28. until then, he'd considered himself asexual, i think. when he called me long-distance to tell me his news, i made the awful mistake of not acting surprised. he was upset by that, but i made up for it by being completely enthusiastic about his coming out. back in the '70s, it was probably scarier than it would be nowadays, that process.

Re: People ARE interesting

[ciddyguy.livejournal.com]

Yes, I came out in 2001 and it is indeed a lot easier to do so today than it was in the 70's, and the 80's for that matter.

Re: People ARE interesting

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

It's amazing how much closeted gay men invest in pretending that they're not. In those days it was even harder, so his shock was understandable. I wonder if you're still friends with him, and how his life has played out over the past 30 years.

Re: People ARE interesting

[daisydumont.livejournal.com]

oh yes, still friends. we e-mail many times a week. he's fairly happy, though his life (like anyone's) has had its ups and downs. he thinks he and i have been friends in many lifetimes. i don't know about that, but it's good to be friends in this one. :)

Re: People ARE interesting

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

That's interesting, although I don't believe in reincarnation. Does he think you're soulmates?

Re: People ARE interesting

[daisydumont.livejournal.com]

i don't believe in it either. my friend has long had an affinity for spiritualism and things like that (i don't). he recently spoke to a psychic about his life and seems to have mentioned me. she told him we'd had *major romances* going in those past lives. when he tells me things like this, i find it interesting but don't take it too literally. :)

i think my friendship has been important to him for many years. that much i'm sure of, and i care about him a lot.

Re: People ARE interesting

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

It makes me glad when my important relationships manage to transcend differences in belief. I feel richer for it. Different perspectives challenge me to keep taking a fresh view of the way I think about things.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Then there's the question of whether you would act on them in your head or in fact! I've become more comfortable with the realization that I find some women attractive, but I never fantasize about them. It still feels like, "Been there, done that." But not in the negative sense I used to have.

It's interesting how our feelings continue to grow and develop. For example the sense of dominance and protectiveness I experienced in response to my German friend was totally new to me. I felt that way in my marriage, and was encouraged to do so by my church culture, but I have never allowed myself to feel it to that extent in relationship to a man. I never even dreamed I would like to.