Wayne Besen on bisexuality

[vaneramos]

Considering I've promoted Wayne's blog recently, I want to take issue with today's post, "New study: bisexuality is bullshit":

Personally, I have no problem with men who want to claim that they are bisexual. In fact, I really don't care if they want to date aliens, as long as they don't work to pass anti-gay laws.

Nevertheless, I have my reasonable doubts about true bisexulaity in men. Let's face it, every single one of the young guys I came out with when I was 17 who identified as bisexual are now exclusively gay. Claiming bisexuality was a convenient crutch in a terribly homophobic society.

The ensuing discussion annoys me even more. Ben K:

Bisexuals are fake.

My comment:

It's sad that gays and lesbians so readily dismiss bisexuals. You would think they would be more self-aware of their own ignorance and prejudice, but it seems people, no matter how marginalized, will always look for someone else to marginalize.

Sure, bisexuality might be a cop-out or crutch for some. That doesn't justify dismissing the experiences of anyone who claims to be bisexual. I'm gay. The bi men I know are primarily active in same-sex relationships, but also feel an attraction to women. But it's not a popular subject in gay circles. I've known several women who considered themselves bi, but were afraid to admit it to their lesbian friends. Lesbian biphobia can be particularly hostile.

The discussion here reminds me of straight people who claim they don't know any gays. Maybe it's your intolerance that keeps them in the closet.

Comments

[noveldevice.livejournal.com]

I wrote a bright, brittle, ironic little response, but you know how I feel about this kind of rhetoric, so it's really not necessary.

Suffice it to say that I have serious arguments with their experimental methods, and also with the obvious bias of the researchers. This is not good science. This is bad science. Bad researcher, no fellowship.

Also, news flash. Yes, I really do like women, even though I am pairbonded with a man. I get irritated when I'm told that one or the other attraction is a sham. What are these people playing at?

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I just want to say how much I appreciate your contribution to the whole discussion, Cat. Remind me to ask for your input if I ever do any serious writing on sexuality.

What are they playing at, indeed! Lately I've been intrigued by certain unexplored complexities in my own sexuality. It's stupid for people to downplay complexity, considering the benefits one might derive from it.

[noveldevice.livejournal.com]

*blush* Thank you. I don't know that I am all that constructive in my contributions--I am impatient and easily irritated. But I have a hard time listening to a bunch of people saying untrue things about a group I belong to and not speaking up and saying "Hey, that's not true for me".

[noveldevice.livejournal.com]

Except, of course, that I'm not a bi guy. But statements about bisexuality do affect me, if only because whatever determinations they make about bisexuality based on their extensive work with a chair, a tumescence collar, and a selection of cheap porn from the local XXX rental place, are going to be applied to me eventually.

[apel.livejournal.com]

Thanks for speaking up. To me the gay and lesbian fear of bisexuals smells a lot of "but at least I'm not <otherMinority>" syndrome. I liked Jack Random's response too.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. I'm speaking at least partly on my own behalf, though. Lately I've felt it necessary to consider the question, "How bi am I?"

[paulonleave]

I think that this study, as reported in the Toronto Star, has some serious flaws: The participants were volunteers who asserted their own sexuality as being gay, straight or bisexual. I suggest that it is likely that bisexuals with "something to prove" are more likely to volunteer for a study of this kind than bisexuals who are completely comfortable about their sexuality. Moreover, the assessments were based on erectile responses. No doubt there is some validity in such a determinant, but I know that for myself (and, I suspect, all men), erotic reactions are not entirely in my dick. At times, I have been extremely turned on but my dick has been soft, for example.

As a culture, we have spent a lot of time and energy arguing over whether 1%, 4%, or 10% of the population is gay. Maybe bisexuality is real, but just not as common as it seems, given the amount of space it takes up in our cultural imaginations.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Yes, I agree that sexuality is much more complex than how my dick responds. Besen does not seem to think that complexity is worth considering.

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link, honey. I added a comment of my own:

I love all the people commenting who seem to assume that men who identify as bi are all married to women, in denial, cowardly, and not helping the "gay" movement.

As soon as I finish this comment, I'm going home to boink my male partner of eight years. Tomorrow night my ex-girlfriend arrives for the weekend--and we are still friends with "benefits."

Later this fall, the book I co-edited on bisexuality, "Bi Men, Coming Out Every Which Way," will be published by a major GLBT publisher. You can search for it by title, or by my name: Pete Chvany.

Have fun telling me I'm closeted, in denial, cowardly, don't know what my real sexuality is, or any of the other stuff. You just make yourself sound very silly. But you're probably very cute and attract attention that way, otherwise I'm sure you'd be sensible enough to stop. :)

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your input, Pete. This discussion has been quite interesting overall.

I regret refusing your invitation to write for the book.

[windows-aligned.livejournal.com]

amazing insight, thanks for posting... I see a lot of that hostility myself.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Thank you for reading and adding your words here.

[daisydumont.livejournal.com]

good comment, van. i went to look and was glad to see trapezebear's comment too. i don't understand why some people refuse to let other people define themselves as they see fit.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I suppose it is because they perceive other people as lying, or at least not facing the facts, and that by obfuscating the truth they are hurting others. Having been hurt as much as I was by the ex-gay movement, I understand why people like Besen set out to discredit it, but in their passion they can lose objectivity.

[trinker.livejournal.com]

Ooh, thanks both for bringing this to our attention, and for the comments you made there.

I've seen many, many reasons given for biphobia, but they all strike me as "I'm not, so I can't see why anyone else would claim to be". No one's going to claim that there aren't heterosexuals, and it seems to be understandable to many that some would be same-gender oriented, but somehow bisexuality is seen as threatening. It still rankles that when I came out as bi, after being "queer-friendly but straight"-identified, the most negative reaction I got was from lesbian and gay friends who sneered, "eventually you'll [grow brave enough] to *really* come out..."

*sigh*

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to hear that. I saw a shadow of it a couple weeks ago on Pride weekend, when I took my daughters to see the dyke march and the Pride parade. Bisexual groups marched in both. They were applauded more warmly by the mixed (and largely heterosexual) audience observing the Pride parade, than by the largely lesbian audience, which practically fell silent during the dyke march. Of course my own observation was completely circumstantial and isolated. But it disturbed me.

[(Anonymous)]

These days, I don't know how prevalent the "plague bringer" stigma is regarding bisexual women in the lesbian community. I never got the strongest version of that one, but *brrr*.

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

I'm not familiar with that one.

It is bad scinece

[weebax.livejournal.com]

I think the reason why some Queer people get angry at bisexuals cause they can always use the fade to str8 excuse anytime, get married and than play with us in the closet so to speak. We become their dirty little secrete, while the Queer person are forced to deal with society's prejudice head on.

I agree with you. The last thing we need to do is put up walls against each other. This study fails to understand that human sexuality is more complicated than that. Instead it opts to prove a one track theory: "If it walks like a duck,and quacks like a duck, chances it is a duck"

Re: It is bad scinece

[vaneramos.livejournal.com]

Hey, thanks for dropping by our table last night. It was great to see you!